I'm running hot and need advice

[calebmurphy]

I need some brains, and advice

My engine is running hot. It seems to be pushing water/antifreeze through the overflow, and its getting worse.

The problem is its not the first time.

October year before last, I took the head off for the first time, replaced a bent exhaust valve, redecked the head, and it ran REALLY GOOD for maybe 10 months before it started running hot. I did put some cheap gasket glue on it. Eventually I started getting water in the oil.

Probably October of last year after it running hot at the end of the summer, I finally took the head BACK off. As I expected, it was a blown head gasket, no cracks. I decked the head, new gasket, copper coated it down, put it back and it ran great until now. Now it seems to have the same symptoms as before, only before, I had water in the oil. Now, I have no water in the oil, but do have water/antifreeze blown onto my firewall from the overflow.

It's blowin it out fast. On a trip to and from starkville and the airport used more than the amount of water the radiator will hold.

I put a new water pump, thermostat, and radiator in before last tear down. I even tried taking the thermostat out with no luck.

There is one dumb thing that I did. Before the last tear down I put in some of that Block Seal. BAD IDEA! That stuff was everywhere inside my head, and I cleaned for hours!

Anybody got any suggestions, thoughts, ideas, anything! I'm desperate!

thanks

[rsmith]

Got a few question for you:

What motor is it?

Is your heater working?

Did you put the block seal in it after the new radiator install?

My TJ with the 4.0 just did the same thing on the way to Jackson the other day. I diagnosed it as the radiator got clogged up. I went to a carwash and opened my drain thingy and flushed the system for about 10 minutes and made it home. For some reason the Tj's seem to be bad about rust forming in the coolant system. Mine had a sludgy/oily mess that I spent about two hours flushing after I got home. It is still not gone. After I drain it a few more time I will be putting a new radiator in it. If you look at the flues in a TJ radiator they have very narrow openings. It seems that any foreign object in the system will clog it up.

BTW, I asked the dealership if they had seen a lot of problems with the TJ radiator and of course they said "no". However, he did show me on the computer where they had been upgraded 8 times in 6 years. They also had 5 in stock. Does that tell you something?



My guess is a clogged radiator. Your water is forcing itself out of the top of the engine where is compresses in the top of the radiator and blows out of the overflow since it cannot flow through the radiator. A peek at the flues from the cap of your radiator should give you the sign. My heater quit working a month before the overheating problem. That should have been my warning sign.

I would recommend flushing a late model Jeep cooling system at least on a yearly basis.

[calebmurphy]

sorry, its a 91 suzuki samurai 1.3.

my heater is working, it did stop about a month ago, but it was a clog in the valve. I cleaned that out.

I put the block seal after the new radiator intall.

Yesterday I took the thermostat out and made it home. This morning when I cranked it it ran for a few minutes (not long enough to get warm) and it idled down and went "clink". And the clink was the last noise it made. All I can think is maybe timing, but if thats the case I'm afraid of what the clink was. It has a timing belt. I took off the part of the cover that I could without taking the radiator off, and it seemed to be intact and tight. Do you think this is a coincidence?

Tell me how you flushed yours? Did you flush just the radiator or the whole system? Did you leave it running?

It seems to be eminent now that it needs to be taken down again. I'm just at a crossroads whether or not to upgrade my engine instead of repairing the old one.

[jharfst]

Does it still turn over (try it by hand)? Many moons ago, I had a Honda that died going down the road and found the timing belt had broken by removing the oil filler cap so I could see the cam and had someone crank it over. The cam didn't turn. Bingo. Replaced the belt and all was well (luckily). I also had a Toyota pickup that ran hot once and warped the aluminum head and blew the gasket. It would still turn over but not run. Redecked and new gasket and it was right as rain. It didn't call for any sealant though; just a dry high quality gasket. If it won't turn over then something is blocking the way, like a broke rod. When I first got my jeep the engine wouldn't turn over. The quarter size hole in the block with the rod sticking out kinda gave away the problem. Probably time to upgrade at that point. Most flush kits I've seen are basically a Tee you put in the heater hose that has a garden hose adapter. You can pick them up at Wally World. Plugging the heater hose to the radiator allows you to "back flush" or pump the water backwards through the system and out of the radiator top to try and dislodge any crud inside. You don't want the engine running at that point, since the water pump would counter-act the "backflushing" effect, and preferrably cool, since running cold water through a hot engine wouldn't be good.

[calebmurphy]

Cool, I thought you meant to pump water through while the engine was running, and let it run out on the ground from the other side. I've heard of people doing that before too.

While your doing the backflushing is there any solution that you can put in to help dislodge any gunk? Reading that I immediately thought of liquid plumber or something of that nature. But I remember as a crazy kid putting that in a bottle with aluminum foil, and that didnt turn out so well. I'll ask at Oriellys or Autozone to see if they know of anything.

I guess tommorrow is the day of truth, I appreciate your help so far and will let you know what I find.

[rsmith]

Be a bit weary of the radiator flush that you buy at Oreilleys or Auto Zone. That is what they are going to tell you to use. I am 2 for 3 on unsuccessful flushes using that stuff. The first time it ate up an intake gasket on a 1998 Tahoe. The second time it ate an intake gasket and water pump seal. The third time is yet to be known - last week on my TJ. I put it in and flushed the system 3 times after I put it in. I have a radiator cap that has an fitting for a water hose to attach. I hook the water hose up, open the drain valve, crank the engine and turn the engine on. I let it run for about 20 minutes.

[calebmurphy]

I guess they're the same ones that suggest Block Seal. They did tell me its really a last resort.
So the water hose puts more water in than can be drained out? That may be what I need. A long water hose so on the way to work it wont run out of water..... j/j

The latest on the sammy:
I found a torn timing belt. They are interference engines, so I'm pretty sure that clink I heard was a valve being bent. The camshaft is incredibly hard to turn. I'm going to look into that and try putting a new timing belt on. If it runs good enough I will drive it until I can find another engine. I would just go in and replace the valve, but my head cant be decked any more. I'm afraid that since it has run hot it will be warped enough to need a new decking job, and if I didnt get it decked it wouldnt be worth the money for a new gasket set.

How hard should a camshaft be to turn?
Do you think its just coincidence that it ran hot and tore a nearly new timing belt at nearly the same time?

[calebmurphy]

Update

I found yesterday the head is locked up. That was the quickest $15 I ever spent with the new timing belt. I'm still checking to see if it can be repaired. My guess is it's warped enough to bind the camshaft, but I havent checked any of the bearings. It is not a bent valve, or at least not causing the lockup. I'm looking either for a new samurai head or new engine, preferably VW diesel 1.6-1.9.

Thanks for your help

[calebmurphy]

Hey guys,
Got a new head for the samurai today, but got a quick question for the mechanics out there. I replaced a blown head gasket in about October of last year, and put new head bolts in it then. It's recommended to replace the head bolts in just about everything if you take them off. But in this case since it has only been a few months would you wait and extra week on the parts to arrive and spend the extra money on new ones? Or would you just put the old ones back in as long as they arent obviously stretched?

Thanks

[rccolacc]

Head bolts are what they call a "torque to yield" bolt. As soon as their torqued, they technically shouldn't be reused. It would take some time and technical engineering terms to explain exactly why this is, but basically as soon as the bolts are torqued they stretch, so it's not a good idea to reuse them. The amount of time they spend in your motor has nothing to do with whether they should be replaced or not. Head bolts should only be used once. I'm sure you could get away with reusing head bolts, but I'm not sure if it's worth the risk.
Hope this helps.
-RC

[calebmurphy]

that's what I figured. Guess I should quit trying to cut corners

thanks

[calebmurphy]

found out the other day I have a broken piston. The parts just came in today planning on getting a lot of work done on Thursday. Anyone know anything about honing cylinders? Would you say just put the old rings back on the new piston, honing and replacing rings in just the broken one, or honing and replacing all rings? I got a whole new set of rings just in case.

thanks

[broncocraigellis]

may as well do them all since you have bought the rings already...just get a cylinder hone and go to down making sure to move up and down along the cylinder wall as the hone is turning. doing that should give the wall a cross-hatch pattern.