Post by danthemanx07 on Jun 29, 2005 7:50:19 GMT -5
i have a samurai now too, and have been looking for some gears, a cheap way to put gears in a samurai is to swap in gears from a sidekick or tracker, (on samurais and trackers the rear of the pumpkin comes off and all of the gears come out with it, they call this the third member) well you have to do some modifications to the sidekick donor third member to get the gears to work correctly, i was thinking of doing this because it can be done cheaply, but i have no experience with gears, i have read a write up on the job, but am still not sure....
can any of yall take a look at this writeup and tell me how difficult it sounds, and or if you woul dbe able or willing to help me with it
The facts about swapping Kick gears into a Sammi axle
Generaly: Kick gear is
Auto 4wd 4.62:1
Manual 5.13:1.
All spot models are 5.13:1
To do both Sammy Front & Rear you will need two Track / Kick fronts + the install kits (about $75 each and include ring gear spacer, center pin can, crush sleve, New penion seal, New nut, New washer). I have set 2 of them up sucessfully with out the install kit but I wouldn't recomend it.
(lacking sleep and rambeling... Up since noon yesterday)
Yes Tracker Kick front 3rd's will drop right in a Sammy front housing BUT they will be weak unless you use the Sammy 4-pin carrier.
Installing Track /Kick front in a Sammy Front Axle (using the Aluminium Tracker carrier):
Harvest ring & penion from donor Track/kick
front carrier.
Harvest ring & penion from Samurai front carrier.
Clean parts very good with solvent...
Install sammy 4pin carrier into Tracker 3rd.
**** Must use the Can or tack weld the 4-pins as the Kick ring gear will not hold them securly on the sammy 4-pin carrier.
**** Must use the Ring gear spacer on the Sammy carrier OR you will be required max the carrier ring gear back lash adjustment to one side creating unequal axle spline engaugement right to left (In the side gear).
**** Kick and tracker thirds can be set up this way on the cheap (free). And Justin my Gunie pig hasn't broken them yet.
Installing the Tracker / Kick ring & penion in the Sammy steel carriers:
Compare Penion gear heights (Inner penion bearing race to end of penion gear) and Crush sleve heights.
Ideially you are trying to use this measurment later to assist you in setting the proper penion depth (shimming the penion). Usually this Penion depth measurement is scribed on the back of the penion gear and is a measurement from the carrier housing face to the finished gear end of the penion shaft. You will adjust this measurement by installing or removing shims between the Inner penion bearing and the carrier housing. Install your penion shaft, shims, (always try stock sammy ones first), and the inner and outer bearing (no crush sleve) along with the old penion washer & nut. just tighten snug as to take penion depth measurements. Once the measurements are correct you can begine to set up / test fit the carrier.
The Track/kick ring gear is larger then the sammy ring gear and there for requires a method to hold the 4 cross pins that the spider gear run on (4-pin) in their place in the carrier. I believe most venders are offering a thin steel "can" that is tack welded into place. I have in the past tack welded the cross pins, thus avoiding purchasing the can. My tack weld method is cheap and therefore debatable, I have yet to have one fail but the risk is yours if you try it, Their is the possiability of the tack weld failing and the pin coming loose thus the can is cheap insurance. Next install the ring gear spacer onto the carrier along with the ring gear (make sure the bolt holes for the ring gear and threads in the carrier) are absolutly clean). The spacer is necessary due to the smaller penion gear and the ring gear's need to be located closer toward the center of the carrier. Insall the ring gear bolts with red loc tite, and thread them all hand tight, next tighten them (with a torque wrench) in a cris cross pattern in 2 or 3 step to their final torque. It is very important that the ring gear is pulled down evenly and the that the bolt load is equally placed. Next Oil/ greas the Carrier bearing's outer races (to help it slide while adjusting back lash) and place (drop) the carrier into the housing gently meshing the ring & penion gears. Install your carrier bearing caps about hand tight. You might go an additional 1/2 turn but you will still need to have them loose enough to move the carrier assy side to side so that you can properly adjust the ring gear back lash (Free play). Now Carefully thread in your carrier adjusting rings (round threaded pieces with all the little holes in them). Screw these until they are snug against the carrier bearings, While checking the back lash (the free play between the ring and penion). You should maintain back lash while snuggin the adjuster rings against the carrier bearing outer races. Now measure your back lash. Use your carrier adjustment rings to move the carrier & ring gear assy right or left for more or less tooth enguagement. More toothe engaugement (Bringin the ring gear closer give less back lash). Once your back lash measurement is correctly set, you can begine to look at your gear tooth contact patern. Here is where you can use the Tooth guide at randy's ring and penion to assist you in visually inspecting the Gear tooth contact pattern to determine necessary chnages to the penion depth. Once you achieve the correct pattern, (Corrcet penion depth & back lash) you can remove the penion for the last time. Here once you are sure you have the penion shimmed correctly you can install you new bearings crush sleve, seal, washer, (Loctite) and nut... Now tighten the penion nut to set the penion torque. The last rear I set up (Wifes ZJ) required a free rotating torque (force) of 12 inch pounds. This required me to tighten the penion and crush sleve until it took 12 inch pounds to turn the penion nut with no ring gear. Once this is accomplished you can drop in the carrier/ ring gear assy. Take care to again accuratly set the ring gear back lash. Once this is complete you can torque the carrier bearing caps. Again torque these bolts in steps leading to their final torque value (here loctite is debatable). Once complete re-check you gear tooth contact pattern and your ring gear back lash. Once these are verified correct you can install the carrier into the axle.
Kick Tracker Front gears in a Sammy Rear axle set up follows along the same lines but uses the Samurai Rear axle side gear (Installs with the Sammy rear 4-pin carrier)
Maybe more later, too tired.
Feel free to correct / edit / debate
Ring gear torque ?
Penion back lash ?
Average Penion depth measurement?
can any of yall take a look at this writeup and tell me how difficult it sounds, and or if you woul dbe able or willing to help me with it
The facts about swapping Kick gears into a Sammi axle
Generaly: Kick gear is
Auto 4wd 4.62:1
Manual 5.13:1.
All spot models are 5.13:1
To do both Sammy Front & Rear you will need two Track / Kick fronts + the install kits (about $75 each and include ring gear spacer, center pin can, crush sleve, New penion seal, New nut, New washer). I have set 2 of them up sucessfully with out the install kit but I wouldn't recomend it.
(lacking sleep and rambeling... Up since noon yesterday)
Yes Tracker Kick front 3rd's will drop right in a Sammy front housing BUT they will be weak unless you use the Sammy 4-pin carrier.
Installing Track /Kick front in a Sammy Front Axle (using the Aluminium Tracker carrier):
Harvest ring & penion from donor Track/kick
front carrier.
Harvest ring & penion from Samurai front carrier.
Clean parts very good with solvent...
Install sammy 4pin carrier into Tracker 3rd.
**** Must use the Can or tack weld the 4-pins as the Kick ring gear will not hold them securly on the sammy 4-pin carrier.
**** Must use the Ring gear spacer on the Sammy carrier OR you will be required max the carrier ring gear back lash adjustment to one side creating unequal axle spline engaugement right to left (In the side gear).
**** Kick and tracker thirds can be set up this way on the cheap (free). And Justin my Gunie pig hasn't broken them yet.
Installing the Tracker / Kick ring & penion in the Sammy steel carriers:
Compare Penion gear heights (Inner penion bearing race to end of penion gear) and Crush sleve heights.
Ideially you are trying to use this measurment later to assist you in setting the proper penion depth (shimming the penion). Usually this Penion depth measurement is scribed on the back of the penion gear and is a measurement from the carrier housing face to the finished gear end of the penion shaft. You will adjust this measurement by installing or removing shims between the Inner penion bearing and the carrier housing. Install your penion shaft, shims, (always try stock sammy ones first), and the inner and outer bearing (no crush sleve) along with the old penion washer & nut. just tighten snug as to take penion depth measurements. Once the measurements are correct you can begine to set up / test fit the carrier.
The Track/kick ring gear is larger then the sammy ring gear and there for requires a method to hold the 4 cross pins that the spider gear run on (4-pin) in their place in the carrier. I believe most venders are offering a thin steel "can" that is tack welded into place. I have in the past tack welded the cross pins, thus avoiding purchasing the can. My tack weld method is cheap and therefore debatable, I have yet to have one fail but the risk is yours if you try it, Their is the possiability of the tack weld failing and the pin coming loose thus the can is cheap insurance. Next install the ring gear spacer onto the carrier along with the ring gear (make sure the bolt holes for the ring gear and threads in the carrier) are absolutly clean). The spacer is necessary due to the smaller penion gear and the ring gear's need to be located closer toward the center of the carrier. Insall the ring gear bolts with red loc tite, and thread them all hand tight, next tighten them (with a torque wrench) in a cris cross pattern in 2 or 3 step to their final torque. It is very important that the ring gear is pulled down evenly and the that the bolt load is equally placed. Next Oil/ greas the Carrier bearing's outer races (to help it slide while adjusting back lash) and place (drop) the carrier into the housing gently meshing the ring & penion gears. Install your carrier bearing caps about hand tight. You might go an additional 1/2 turn but you will still need to have them loose enough to move the carrier assy side to side so that you can properly adjust the ring gear back lash (Free play). Now Carefully thread in your carrier adjusting rings (round threaded pieces with all the little holes in them). Screw these until they are snug against the carrier bearings, While checking the back lash (the free play between the ring and penion). You should maintain back lash while snuggin the adjuster rings against the carrier bearing outer races. Now measure your back lash. Use your carrier adjustment rings to move the carrier & ring gear assy right or left for more or less tooth enguagement. More toothe engaugement (Bringin the ring gear closer give less back lash). Once your back lash measurement is correctly set, you can begine to look at your gear tooth contact patern. Here is where you can use the Tooth guide at randy's ring and penion to assist you in visually inspecting the Gear tooth contact pattern to determine necessary chnages to the penion depth. Once you achieve the correct pattern, (Corrcet penion depth & back lash) you can remove the penion for the last time. Here once you are sure you have the penion shimmed correctly you can install you new bearings crush sleve, seal, washer, (Loctite) and nut... Now tighten the penion nut to set the penion torque. The last rear I set up (Wifes ZJ) required a free rotating torque (force) of 12 inch pounds. This required me to tighten the penion and crush sleve until it took 12 inch pounds to turn the penion nut with no ring gear. Once this is accomplished you can drop in the carrier/ ring gear assy. Take care to again accuratly set the ring gear back lash. Once this is complete you can torque the carrier bearing caps. Again torque these bolts in steps leading to their final torque value (here loctite is debatable). Once complete re-check you gear tooth contact pattern and your ring gear back lash. Once these are verified correct you can install the carrier into the axle.
Kick Tracker Front gears in a Sammy Rear axle set up follows along the same lines but uses the Samurai Rear axle side gear (Installs with the Sammy rear 4-pin carrier)
Maybe more later, too tired.
Feel free to correct / edit / debate
Ring gear torque ?
Penion back lash ?
Average Penion depth measurement?
