Old School Buggy build

[broncocraigellis]

First, a caveat: I'm beginning the thread before actually starting the buggy, but I have finalized my plans at least.

The specs, which are of course subject to change:
2000 4.3 Vortec
TH350
flipped D-300
HP D60 front
14B rear
5.13s
39.5 x 16.5 Iroks or TSL or ?
H1 double beadlocks
Jeep hood and grill

I'm going to tear the EB down and part it out, keeping the axles, radiator, steering wheel, etc... to reuse on this build. Hopefully that will cut costs down. Combined with dismantling the EB, maybe I'll have enough money to buy something big like tires or a couple of smaller things like air shocks and suspension joints.

I'm going to call it project Old School because I'm going to run leaf springs on the front and a traditional rectangle tube frame back to behind the seats.

The rear will be suspended by 14" travel air shocks (hopefully a used pair) and the axle will be located by a 4-link.

The structure of the buggy will be 1.75x .120 DOM (the only bender die we have is 1.75), unless I break down and buy a 1.5" die.

Here's an old Campbell Ent. comp. buggy that I'm getting inspiration from:


Also, Shaffer's off road Diablo Sport chassis has given me ideas. I won't be copying either buggy tube for tube, but their influence will be apparent. I've thought about drawing the thing up in Bend Tech and on graph paper, but I honestly haven't had the patience to sit down and do that. Building for me is a means to an end, a necessary evil. I'd much rather be out 'wheeling than in the garage. So, I'm going to lay out the main rails, mount the engine, then eye everything from there.

I've been reading for the last two years about different buggy builds and I think this setup will be all I need. I can't see spending the money on coilovers and all the latest bling parts. I really enjoy this hobby/sport/activity but won't sacrifice in other and IMO more important areas of my life just to have a set of Walker Evans wheels on my ride. I don't have a credit card and I won't use one to build this thing. So, the process will be slow I'm sure, but I don't have a problem not 'wheeling for a while with diesel prices continuing to rise.

For paint, I'm going to spray the chassis, axles, and wheels with TSC gloss tractor paint b/c it's cheap...powdercoat isn't in my vocabulary. The body panels and outer beadlock rings will be painted M38 OD green leftover from the M38 I sold to RC partially built. That seems like a cool combo. in my head, but paint is a long way off.

So, where do I stand? I've collected the 4.3, had the TH350 built, have the axles, d-shafts, rad., steering wheel, and misc. small parts. I need to go to the junkyard to pick up an adapter and D300 case. Hopefully Chris still has the YJ frame that we were going to swap a couple of months ago. I told him I'd rather buy the stuff, so I want to make good on at least part of that deal. I have an itemized list in Excel of what I've thought of so far.

I guess I'm officially parting out the EB now...I've had several guys interested in the transmission setup already that will pay for new tires. I'm probably going to sell my 8274 and move to a low-profile winch.

There it is - I'll begin parts collecting in earnest after my last class at the end of May. Please give me your opinions and suggestions.

[rccolacc]

Does this mean you won't need the ZJ springs?
-RC

[jeepchipjones]

On a budget build, which most of us normal everyday guys are on, you have to list out the essentials/necessaries, and then have the wish list attached to that. You should make sure you have your priorities listed out and have a preferred solution for each, and then an alternate for each as well.

IMO, I would try to keep the weight as low as possible, I would probably splurge on some good tires like some used stickies, and I would prefer to have as much belly clearance as possible with the height of the buggy as low as possible. This takes a lot of effort and calculations, moving things around, notching, etc but in the end, I think it makes for a much more efficient setup.

For the leaf springs, are you considering sliders, shackles, revolvers, z-box's, etc?

Are you sticking with mechanical steering or going hydro?

I can't wait to see this thing start up, will you be building this in Starkville or Tupelo?

[broncocraigellis]

Yeah, that's pretty much what my spreadsheet looks like... I don't have any bling parts other than airshocks and I'm going to try to get a pair used. As far as stickies, I don't particularly want them - Hot Springs is hell on tires, and that's one of the closest places to ride for me. I also want to blast this thing on the street some and stickies will not be good for that. I've always done fine with less tire than everyone, so it won't be anything new, just more challenging b/c of the tire handicap.

It will have a flat belly since the D300 is clockable. Between 20-22 inches will be fine for me. I'm shooting for 6 inches of uptravel, but I'm not going to get too crazy with lowering the thing. TeenyCar's build on pirate4x4 was really cool, but I don't want to work that much to lower it two more inches because of the extra time invested and two inches really won't be that much. I don't think the front clip will get in the way of uptravel b/c I'm planning on cutting a nice curve into the hood. I also thought about running a flattie hood and grill since it is so much narrower than a regular CJ,YJ,TJ even before narrowing. Plus it would look cool.

The leafs will be mounted w/ the shackles in the back, sunk deep into the frame to lower the buggy probably 3 or 4 inches. PolyPerformance did a build for a customer that notched the frame a lot to fit the shackles and it turned out trick, so I'm going to borrow from them. I'm going to run regular shackles with no trickery for extra droop. I think that stuff hurts you in the end. I considered sliders for the clearance, but I think frenching the shackles will be easier than frenching sliders into the frame. Keith Bailey has custom leaf packs made for him that run around $75 a piece, so I'll probably run those... I know people who have run them with success and was reminded of them the other day. Probably going to run a decent digressive piston shock like the Bilstein 5125 instead of my usual cheapo, generic hydraulic shocks and Timbren bumpstops.

I'm going full hydro. with a surplus center single-ended ram for packaging. No $$$ PSC, Howe, or P.O.S. parts for the steering.

The parts are collected in Tupelo, but I'll build it whereever I have a job - either Starkville or Jackson it's looking like now. I'm ready to get started and have it in my head - just need some time.

Forgot to add that I'll keep the FI on the engine and ditch propane... I have the fuel cell already. I love how propane runs but not the obstacles with finding a place to fill up and carrying spare fuel.

[jeepchipjones]

If you build it in Jackson, you know I'll throw in an extra set of hands.

[broncocraigellis]

I appreciate it Chip. Help would be welcome. RC, I had my eyes on rebuilding a wrecked TJ, but it was auctioned this morning and I didn't get it.

[bcjeep]

Craig, I'll let you know how the springs work, I just picked up a full set to go on the YJ.
And I have had some experience with notching a frame when I used to lower trucks for people.You can get a good c notch kit that would work on your frame from some of these 2 wheel drive custom places.
I'll be glad to lend an extra hand , I feel like I owe you a couple anyway.

[jeepchipjones]

You've got me all pumped up now, start putting some tube together brother!

On a side note, Im looking to buy a house in Jackson right now, and I have already confirmed with Brooke that my first project will be to build a shop. I will not be able to build a buggy for a while since I will be paying off bills and debts for a year or so, so I will have a place for you to build it at if you want. I am going to try to knock it out pretty fast, get it wired for 220 and all that. Most of the houses we have been looking at have 2-car carports, and I either plan on closing one of these in or may just build a whole new shop.

[broncocraigellis]

Thanks Bryan. You buying them actually reminded me of them the other day. Jerry ran them on the rear of his YJ for a long time with good results. Can Keith get them made to any specs or is the selection limited to what he has in stock? And you don't owe me anything. I'm always glad to help. That's a good idea with the c-notch. Hopefully I won't need to notch it that much.

Chip, I appreciate your generosity too. First, I hope I'm able to get down that way for work. Then I may take you up on the offer, but you might regret it once I get in there in the middle of building it!

I've been ready put tube together, but I have my hands tied until school's over.

[jeepchipjones]

broncocraigellis said:

you might regret it once I get in there in the middle of building it!

Nah, I will just motivate you to finish it even faster!

Besides, Im going to need a hand when I start building mine too, and I can "warm up" on yours, so to speak.

Time to start shopping for some mo' tools!

[rsmith]

I don't think the front clip will get in the way of uptravel b/c I'm planning on cutting a nice curve into the hood. I also thought about running a flattie hood and grill since it is so much narrower than a regular CJ,YJ,TJ even before narrowing. Plus it would look cool.

I have a CJ2a grill that I forgot to lump into all of that Willys stuff that I sold. I am doing nothing but tripping over it in my shop. I don't think it has the beauty rings. I might even pay your gas to come get it out of my shop so that I could quit tripping on it.

Just know it is there if you need it.

I am excited about your buggy plan. You have given it great thought and it sounds like you have a solid plan. I think it is a challenge to build on a budget and it makes me proud to do the same thing as those who may have 50g in thier rigs. Of course, I would not mind the opportunity to be able to dump a wad of cash in a rig!

[JWP]

I would consider using coil springs in back rather than air shocks. That would certainly save you some money and you will not loose any performance.

I like this idea as well. After my move is complete, I am going to start on a buggy. I go back in forth from leaf front/ coil back to coil front and back to air shocks all around. I really haven't seen any major tremendeous advantage to the expense seen with expensive coilover link systems.

[davidscj7]

jwp said:

I would consider using coil springs in back rather than air shocks. That would certainly save you some money and you will not loose any performance.

I like this idea as well. After my move is complete, I am going to start on a buggy. I go back in forth from leaf front/ coil back to coil front and back to air shocks all around. I really haven't seen any major tremendeous advantage to the expense seen with expensive coilover link systems.

IMO, for a light buggy, that is going to be used for crawling, there is no need for coilovers. Air shocks work just as good for a third of the money and none of the hassle trying to set up springs, and tuning.
If your going to be over 4000 lbs, and/or doing high speed racing, I would consider coilovers.

[broncocraigellis]

rsmith said:

I have a CJ2a grill that I forgot to lump into all of that Willys stuff that I sold. I am doing nothing but tripping over it in my shop. I don't think it has the beauty rings. I might even pay your gas to come get it out of my shop so that I could quit tripping on it.

Just know it is there if you need it.

I am excited about your buggy plan. You have given it great thought and it sounds like you have a solid plan. I think it is a challenge to build on a budget and it makes me proud to do the same thing as those who may have 50g in thier rigs. Of course, I would not mind the opportunity to be able to dump a wad of cash in a rig!

Thanks Rob, that's the same challenge that I like too. I have to try hard to keep this hobby in perspective with more important things.

I think I'll take you up on that grill. It would make a good looking buggy.

[bcjeep]

I like the way this is going. And by the way Rob, if Craig decides not to use that grill, I would love to.I have plans to make a working wall fixture with it.